Curse

Perth68 · Oct 04, 2007, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyrmdog

First is greater interaction with the community.
...
Second is the inclusion of more carrots. Now, before anybody goes crazy and talks about all the vanity items or complains about the new PvE requirements, I can't even begin to list the people I've gotten to try this game only to be turned off by their feeling that they weren't progressing once they hit 20. Be it through loot or character abilities, the carrots were just too subtle to draw most of them in. For some it was the idea that they were as good as they'd get and that gave them the sensation of completion, like they'd beaten the game even though the majority of the storyline remained to be discovered.

Whether through loot, alternate advancement paths or whatever, people need to feel as if they are accomplishing something. What's in place works for most of the resident crowd, but not for all. I'm not advocating a specific method yet, just the need for some sort of essentially perpetual reward system.

A little tangential, but there you go.

I fully agree with the first point so I am excited for persistence. To get of topic slightly I think that adding a more social atmosphere to regions of the game is great, particularly when there is danger involved. I'm a big fan of open pvp systems. There is nothing really like being on edge all the time while just out killing stuff, or fighting over optimal zones. I don't think its entirely popular because there are some serious faults to it, but adding a sense of unpredictability and danger does a lot to enhance gameplay.

I'm not against adding more incentive for time. The important thing is once you hit level 20, do the attribute quests and spend a little time getting collector weapons you're as strong as your going to get. Anything after that which increases strength of a character I don't like. Rewards for pure vanity aren't nearly as strong as rewards for increased power, but adding those kinds of rewards bring in more problems then they're worth.

As for a solution I'm not really sure. As you said the rewarded with cool looking gear works for me but not for others. My answer is generally make the game more fun in its own right, just like pvp is fun in its own right. Beyond all of those comments though, which I think really work but are beside the point, looking cool rewards are the only ones I can really endorse.

I think what ANet is looking to do in GW2 is make a game with a large or infinite strength reward system, but are trying to attack its problems individually. Maybe this is a step in the right direction? Personally it sounds alright to me, but not really what I want. Mainly because of a natural competitive nature of social games. A game that adheres more to skill based gaming is something I'd be far more interested in.Perhaps the best route is trying to make a character more invested in the world, so they naturally want to continue. Like by being a crucial part in town building or other communities in games.

Shadow Longstem · Oct 04, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

im looking forward to gw2, and i think most people are looking too much into it without having enough info to be worried about anything in the first place.

imo GW succeeded in curbing the bad habits of the mmo genre [mindless + pointless gameplay, grind etc] though it still has a few issues, but that being said its possibly the ONLY high quality mmo out there which can be played casually and addictively w/o leaving a major gulf in "toon strength" between the two types of players, as well as one of the few mmo's or possibly the only one whose character builds arnt linear and continually providesi interesting and new pve and pvp methods on a regular basis due to the sheer number of skill and class combos available, not to mention the far greater level of skill required in the game then in probably most if not all other mmo's.

that being said i think GW2 should and prolly will b a good mmo, especially if they provied as much high quality gameplay as GW1 w/o subscription fee [which would b enough to win me over lol], however Anet being experimental as they are should also consider giving more prominence to non combatitve roles characters can be used to play since rpg doesnt hav to be all about action, e.g include new non combatitve professions such as miner, farmer, forester, baker, musician etc where the player is required to get better at particualr "minigames" in order to get better at this non combatative role - i think this would provide a nice way to kool of after a good round of combat [pve or pvp]

was i too off topic? lol i apoligize in advance

freaky naughty · Oct 05, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Well WoW is the most successful MMORPG so of course other online games will compare themselves to WoW. Btw Anet has already broken from the mold and made their own thing. GW is WoW's biggest competitor and they're doing something completely new

Zinger314 · Oct 05, 2007, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by freaky naughty

GW is WoW's biggest competitor and they're doing something completely new

I'd ROFL, but that's a tad juvenille.

Seriously, by the time GW2 is released, WoW will be on its third expansion. And GW be way, way old news with all the new MMOs out by then (Hellgate, AoC, WAR, etc.)

Antheus · Oct 05, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by freaky naughty

Well WoW is the most successful MMORPG so of course other online games will compare themselves to WoW. Btw Anet has already broken from the mold and made their own thing. GW is WoW's biggest competitor and they're doing something completely new

GW has made itself into WoW's competitor (not biggest).

But the "threat" to WoW are the casual games. The non-MMORPG MMOGs.

The old fantasy and magic genre in MMOs has reached its peak with WoW. There's nothing left to do, everything new will be just improved graphics or different worlds.

Meanwhile, the likes of Habbo Hotel, Runescape, Club Penguin, Audition, Kingdom of Loathing, and other much less talked about titles have taken gaming world by storm, catering to every demographic from 1-99, offering all degrees of involvement (1 minute per day - 24 hours per day), but all without exception reaching and exceeding millions of players, and rising fast.

MMORPG is the biggest EQ clone. But it's not even nearly the biggest MMOG.

This is where the drive to make everything as casual friendly as possible comes from. That's where the market is.

How well it'll work for GW remains to be seen.

Bryant Again · Oct 05, 2007, 12:51 AM // 00:51

In terms of sales, GW is doing pretty good. But it has a long way to go to "compete" with WoW.

I'll quote myself from earlier in the thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's hard to compete when you don't have a set number of players. In GW, we know that we have over 4mil copies sold. Then, count in how many of those are stolen/bots, how many are those copies on the same account, how many of those are bought by the same person (bought before you could buy character slots) and the active player base starts to seem veeeery very small.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

But the "threat" to WoW are the casual games. The non-MMORPG MMOGs.

That's why I'm confused...If most gamers are casual gamers, then why is WoW, possibly the most popular MMO in history, have so many players if it's so "anti-casual?"

Maybe the majority prefers uncasual gameplay. Who knows.

Imaginos · Oct 05, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Higher levels *will* make a difference, but the power curve will be flattened.

Uh damn, I used to know a math equation showing what I meant. I'll provide an example instead: A level 20 character will be stronger than a level 5 character by far, but a level 100 character will be slightly stronger than a level 50 character.

Those are just examples, of course. I have no idea what the set level will be in GW2.

And that's the wrong way to go. If Anet keeps levels almost irrelevant (skill points only etc..) then infinite levels are fine. Otherwise you just have mega grind in a box.

Capped attribute points like we have now or skill trees keeps everyone on a pretty even playing field.

Imaginos · Oct 05, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

In terms of sales, GW is doing pretty good. But it has a long way to go to "compete" with WoW.

I'll quote myself from earlier in the thread:

That's why I'm confused...If most gamers are casual gamers, then why is WoW, possibly the most popular MMO in history, have so many players if it's so "anti-casual?"

Maybe the majority prefers uncasual gameplay. Who knows.

Because WoW has 2 communities in it. The casual player who runs around and does all their quests and some dungeons and may see one of the tougher dungeons and the hardcore raider who races to max level and then grinds the hard dungeons for gear to go do the next higher hard dungeon and that's all they do.

Rather like GW having a PvE community and a PvP community, with some who drift into both areas.

Bryant Again · Oct 05, 2007, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

Otherwise you just have mega grind in a box.

Depends what you consider "grind". Oblivion had high levels that took a while to get to, with each one being more powerful than the last, and I had fun at every step.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

Capped attribute points like we have now or skill trees keeps everyone on a pretty even playing field.

Don't need to - the sidekick system boosts the person you're partying with to your level.

wetsparks · Oct 05, 2007, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

I'd ROFL, but that's a tad juvenille.

Seriously, by the time GW2 is released, WoW will be on its third expansion. And GW be way, way old news with all the new MMOs out by then (Hellgate, AoC, WAR, etc.)

FYI, Hellgate London isn't an MMO. But these companies just see $.$ with subscription fees, these other games look good, but lets see the final product and upcoming features before we proclaim them anything.

dameros · Oct 05, 2007, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

I'd ROFL, but that's a tad juvenille.

Seriously, by the time GW2 is released, WoW will be on its third expansion. And GW be way, way old news with all the new MMOs out by then (Hellgate, AoC, WAR, etc.)

Zinger, please go back and play WoW and stop posting on guru. All of your posts are now dissing GW and about how awesome WoW is. If WoW is so awesome go post on the WoW forums.

Thank you.

iridescentfyre · Oct 05, 2007, 05:54 AM // 05:54

An MMO with no monthly fee does not compete with one that does on equal footing and never will. Players do not have to choose GW over WoW, they can play both. Furthermore, GW and WoW aren't even the same kinds of MMO. People that play WoW don't do it for the same reasons we play GW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dameros

Zinger, please go back and play WoW and stop posting on guru. All of your posts are now dissing GW and about how awesome WoW is. If WoW is so awesome go post on the WoW forums.

Thank you.

QFT, in my opinion.

Lonesamurai · Oct 05, 2007, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

And that's the wrong way to go. If Anet keeps levels almost irrelevant (skill points only etc..) then infinite levels are fine. Otherwise you just have mega grind in a box.

Capped attribute points like we have now or skill trees keeps everyone on a pretty even playing field.

What will it matter?

You can't out do someone in PvP and gear won't make any difference in GW2 as everyone will be maxed for PvP with UAX (UAX still unconfirmed, but Mentioned again by Andrew patrick in IRC discussion last night)

What does it all matter in PvE? As long as PvP is balanced 100%, then PvE is groovy to carry on and actually be fun

Redfeather1975 · Oct 05, 2007, 10:29 AM // 10:29

As far as what WoW's biggest competitor is...
I wouldn't be surprised if it were another Blizzard title.

Might even be StarCraft 2 someday.
Blizzard games have been very popular all over the world for a while.
I think Paul Sams bathes in gold.

Wyrmdog · Oct 05, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by dameros

Zinger, please go back and play WoW and stop posting on guru. All of your posts are now dissing GW and about how awesome WoW is. If WoW is so awesome go post on the WoW forums.

Thank you.

I can't speak to his other posts, but I don't see how this one was 'dissing' Guild Wars. GW really isn't WoW's biggest competition as others have pointed out. WoW measures subscribers while GW measures units sold for one thing. For another, playing one doesn't preclude playing the other. Lastly they're VASTLY different games that, in large part, appeal to different crowds...people like me who play and enjoy both are not likely to be very common (though I have no statistics to back that up).

I think it'd be helpful to address each feature revealed about GW2 on it's own merits without engaging in the worthless hyperbole regarding other games.

Bryant Again · Oct 05, 2007, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyrmdog

Lastly they're VASTLY different games that, in large part, appeal to different crowds.

Yes, they appeal to vastly different crowds - yet they're both labeled the same type of game. Just one of the reasons I don't like to call GW an MMO.

Wyrmdog · Oct 05, 2007, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Yes, they appeal to vastly different crowds - yet they're both labeled the same type of game. Just one of the reasons I don't like to call GW an MMO.

Even the developers don't call it an MMO. That alone should be telling.

Bryant Again · Oct 05, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyrmdog

Even the developers don't call it an MMO. That alone should be telling.

You done took tha words outta my mouth.

Esan · Oct 05, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Seriously, by the time GW2 is released, WoW will be on its third expansion. And GW be way, way old news with all the new MMOs out by then (Hellgate, AoC, WAR, etc.)

Don't forget NCSoft's own Tabula Rasa. If their dev team does not keep spectacularly self-destructing every six months, it might be my next MMORPG.

jackie · Oct 05, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

As far as what WoW's biggest competitor is...
I wouldn't be surprised if it were another Blizzard title.

Might even be StarCraft 2 someday.
Blizzard games have been very popular all over the world for a while.
I think Paul Sams bathes in gold.

Taken from blizz site:

Job Update 9/7/07
New Position - Lead 3D Character Artist - Next-Gen MMO
Blizzard Entertainment is looking for an exceptionally skilled lead 3D character artist for a team focused on next-generation massively multiplayer online games. The ideal candidate has extensive experience modeling and texturing a diverse visual range of characters and creatures at a senior or lead level. A solid grasp of form, structure, color, and light for both 2D and 3D art assets is essential. The lead 3D character artist must have experience leading a team, have skill in another art task as well (illustration, modeling, texturing, animation, or concept drawing), and be well-versed in related tools -- Maya, Photoshop, etc...

I'm wondering the very same thing